I would expect that most politically minded readers (of all political stripes) could tell the difference between satirical humour and me being a "fascist" seriously wanting to start military coups on a municipal level.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Fellow blogger Kirbycairo described me as being irrational and a"wacko". To my defence, how does being critical of organized-labour make me any less of a moderate ? There are many so called blue-Liberals/red-Tories who feel that the effectiveness of organized labour has had its day. What makes the Liberal Party so appealing to so many Canadians across this great country is its big-tent nature. We have members who are on the political left and those on the political right. Why is it so surprising that politically moderate individuals, like myself, have opinons that lie on both sides of the political spectrum?
If me showing my disdain toward the inaction of Mayor Miller is considered "undemocratic", as Kirbycairo put it, then I don't know what democracy is.
Monday, July 6, 2009
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Organized labour definitely has NOT had its day. Especially when you see businesses like LCBO trying to make everyone casual to the point you make less than 20,000 a year. Do anti-unionist expect people to work three jobs to survive?
Without unions it is just a matter of time before everyones salary starts to drop. Private sector pays close to union wages in order to compete for talent.
What do you propose will keep our wages from sliding? I know business is anti-union in order to save money which comes from who? Skim off the workers wage so Mr business man can walk off with the difference in his pocket.
Don't forget without unions our wages would be shit, people would be fired left and right for being sick. Wasn't too long ago pregnant women were canned for being pregnant thus unable to work at some point.
Please illustrate how private business will give us amazing wages? I have worked in private sector and now public and unionized. I am doing same work except i was paid less in the private business and work two weeks at a time (travelled to job sites out of country) and never got paid the overtime nor time I worked on weekends with no option of taking it off as lieu time. I was a slave. Now I get respect for my work. A decent wage. Paid overtime and a lot less stress. I ain't gonna be Mr Private business's bitch. Sorry. Go for it if thats what you are into.
T-Roy
Own your own business?
Don't take it to heart, Arthur. If you take away NDP'ers right to over-react, it would be like taking away their oxygen.
The danger in saying that organized labour has "had its day" is that it implies that labour could disband and businesses would voluntarily maintain all the gains that the union movement has won - not just for members but in many cases for all of us - instead of racing towards the bottom in terms of wages, job security, benefits, pensions, working conditions and the like.
What makes you less of a moderate is your failure to understand that advocating military coups is fascist in nature, plain and simple. And your total failure to understand not only the important role that Unions have played in the development of a more prosperous society but, more importantly, their LEGAL right to organize and take job action.
Christian says that this is an NDP'er over-reaction. FIrst I'm am not an NDP'er - Second, if a Conservative blogger had advocated a coup in order to overthrow an elected official and deprive workers of constitutionally sanctioned rights Mr. Christian would have gone postal.
Hypocrisy gentleman, hypocrisy!
BY the way, Arthur, only someone profoundly ignorant of how capitalism works could imagine that organized labour has 'had its day.' Not only are all worker's rights (as well as many human rights) been brought about by union work, but without dedicated activists we would quickly revert back to the 'good old days' when children worked in factories. Furthermore, how much time have you spent in Honduras seeing how people with few rights and few unions are forced to live? Capitalism by its nature will try to force wages and benefits down and capitalists all over the globe continue to fight against fundamental rights. The struggle will not simply end because the west has become more prosperous. And it is naive to think it would.
I read the original post. I read this one. I don't see the connection. There was no anti-union satire; there was a certain amount of anti-Miller bashing. Satire's usually a little more out there (e.g., A Modest Proposal) and being anti-Miller isn't the same as being anti-union.
With regards to unions as such, though, I think the most important issue is the utter hypocrisy of calling yourself a "liberal" (with or without the capital letter) and opposing the existence of organized labour. You can't be in favour of corporate self-organization and against labour self-organization without contradiction or severe logical contortion.
Incidentally: what piles of trash? I live here too, y'know, and I haven't seen any. And I lived here in 2002 during the last garbage strike, when there really were piles of trash on the streets. So I do have some basis for comparison.
Thank you all for your comments. Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinions. This is what a democracy is all about.
Let me clarify what I meant when I said “organized labour has had its day”. Back in the days of Tommy Douglas and the CCF, unions fought for basic work rights that have become institutionalized into Canadian law. These are things which most of us value, regardless of political affiliation. What I am frowning upon here is what they have become today. I am frowning upon what has become an immense sense of entitlement. We are in the middle of the one of the worse recessions in recent history and ALL of us are making sacrifices in such hard times. All of us are taking cutbacks in every aspect of our lives. City workers are not an exception. In this case the Toronto city workers union decided to go on strike to, for example among other things, to fight to bank their already generous amount sick days (when most of us only get an unbankable 5). I believe that unions had their purpose back in the day when they were there to fight and protect basic worker rights (i.e. minimum wage, workplace safety). This is not what is happening today. Today unions, like CUPE and CAW/UAW, have grown into giant institutions of entitlement where they are holding their respective employers by their necks by fighting for things that they are fortunate enough to have to begin with (i.e. cherries on top of the ice cream). I’m sorry, but banking sick days is not a basic worker right. Over time, these employers give into these demands and result in massive legacy costs and chronic fiscal complications. Eradication of unions will not happen and is not what I meant. What is needed is reform and willingness to make sacrifices in light of the economic reality.
David Miller wants to have it both ways. He doesn’t want to disappoint his labour voting base. He also doesn’t want to be seen as giving in too easily, thus resulting in not taking any action at all. Clear and active leadership is what we need.
Being critical of unions doesn’t disqualify me nor does it make me hypocritical to call myself a Liberal. There seems to be confusion as to where the centre is. Never once have I claimed to be a raging socialist.
ADHR: Yes there are piles of trash. I don’t know if you have been to the designated trash disposal areas. Some of these areas are near parks and residential areas. Not only is it causing environmental damage, its also causing health concerns and economic hurdles (i.e. Toronto summer tourism). I live in Toronto. I too was here for the 2002 strike as well.
Kirbycairo, you're not an NDPer? OK, I'll take your word for it. As far as going postal, if a conservative blogger had advocated a coup and I was aware of it, I might post something about it. But I would title it- 'Conservative blogger advocates coup'- unlike you, who declared 'the liberals are fascist'!!!!
Do you see the difference?
Arthur, I'm not up on what the dispute is between the two sides, however, it is important to realize that in a bad economy, the unions are vulnerable to those who would try to do them harm.
Again, I am not sure where the dis-agreement lies, and while I believe unions still have an important role to play, I agree that some changes are probably in order. I know two people who have been milking the system for years. Going on disability while taking vacations, for example. I know an airline mechanic who happens to be an alcoholic. A few years ago, he was responsible for a flight having to redirect and make an emergency landing at the first available airport.
The plane landed, passengers were given hotel accommodations while it was being repaired, and the guy received a three day suspension. Paid.
Those are the sorts of incidents that bother me about unions. I believe they need some tweaking so those that are a drag on the system are removed, but I'd rather have them than not.
It was nice to read your post Arthur. I just wanted to say that as a young person and victim of the York U strike, I was beginning to lose faith in the Liberals. I feel conflicted about whether they really have my best interests in mind so it was refreshing to see a Lib who shared a similar opinion.
I don't think CUPE etc realize how many young people they are losing in terms of sympathetic voters. Could be a problem for them in the not too distant future.
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